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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Parallax Error on 20/04/2006 12:26:01
 Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Before any reply from ISS, CVA began hostilities. As far as I know they are still blue at this moment.
There was no soverignty to CVA in that region, and when it was constructed it was thought to be upon that agreement. Now CVA says it claimed that area too, after 4 control towers were placed there.
If you would have read the rest of this thread there would be two things obvious here.
Firstly, ISS contacted the CVA end of February at which point ISS and CVA came to an agreement about the areas we considered to be our protectorate. This is the agreement where there has been a misunderstanding about the meaning of the word 'to'. It seems the dictionary definition only counts if it backs up what you want, otherwise its meaning is open to whatever interpretation you wish to place on it.
CVA did not fire a shot until after Count Tassenine's post in this thread stating that the removal of the POS in the debated system was not going to happen. This follows at least a full week of attempts to sort this out amicably.
CVA has always maintained a claim on the system in question, ever since ISS approached us and asked at the end of February. It has always been part of our space according to the agreements we have with ISS (and Huzzah for that matter).
(Edited for spelling and grammer only)
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.20 12:46:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Krackerjack
Hello, I'm an alt.
When you lack the courage of your convictions to post your views as yourself and get someone else to do it for you, your opinions become worthless.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Parallax Error on 20/04/2006 14:46:44
Originally by: O Thief
BoB police their region, claim all of it, and make it clear to all on the Alliance map. There is no ambiguity.
CVA may or may not claim it, but they go to war anyway.
Distinct different - even Aralis admitted in an earlier post that he can't claim all of Providence due to insufficient resources. BoB make no such claim about Delve.
My original question still stands.
1) The alliance map is a 3rd party venture, it is made up from best guesses and various bits of information which people give to the creator. The CVA does not give information to the person involved so that map cannot be used as the gospel truth to confirm CVA claims. The CVA have never given any input to it.
2) CVA do claim the area in question, that claim was recognised by ISS in February. This claim is now being disupted by ISS leadership over their (inaccurate) defination of the word "to".
If I went on a journey from Rens to Tash Murkon Prime, my journey would not stop 1 jump short of Tash Murkon prime. I would be in it, there is a rather large difference there!
3) Aralis has admitted we can't claim all of Providence, which is why we only claim approximately half of it.
4) What was your original question? The first one you actually made was "Is it hardly suprising ISS reacted the way they did?". My *personal* answer to this is well CVA would be more annoyed at being told by someone that has been treated as friendly for an extended period of time "Tough". Especially when the point of accrimony is an ISS misunderstanding of a two letter word.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:50:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Soltha SIl
Providence is claimed as an extension of the Empire by CVA. So I suppose they are within their rights to remove people who they donĘt see fit.
However the thing I donĘt understand, is that the empire allows foreign stations within its borders. I suppose the question I want to ask is : Why donĘt the CVA want ISS within their space?
Easy answer there, because ISS put up several (I think it is up to 7 now) Large fully armed POS in a system which was part of the agreed claim that CVA and ISS made. Despite this being pointed out politely a long with a request to remove these POS we have had the sum total of "Well, we misunderstood your claim because "to" doesn't mean the same thing to us as it does everyone else."
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.20 15:08:00 -
[5]
Originally by: O Thief
That doesnt really answer the main question here: why does it bother you so much that some friends of yours are developing this system in the first place? Why is a system outside your original claimed borders suddenly now worth going to war over?
I'll tell you why - Aralis doesnt want ISS in Providence. Thats why. His reasons are purely personal, and you lot are foolish enough to tag along.
Let me correct you here, some *former* friends who are now trying to back peddle on an agreement and are waving Mercs infront of our noses as a thinly veild threat. Are trying to develop a system, which was agreed to be ours at the end of February by both ISS and CVA, *without our approval*.
Is it still not making sense to you?
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.20 15:12:00 -
[6]
But we do claim that system, oh obtuse one. That claim was recognised by ISS in February. Would it be easier to understand if I changed the word order round slightly?
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.20 15:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: O Thief
So why do CVA so strongly object to ISS developing the system?
I still don't understand.
'oh no, our friends have put up POS in system we plan to claim, maybe, in the future - quick war dec them'.... its just not adding up
Maybe, just maybe its not the developing of the system here thats the problem?
Maybe just possibly, its the manner in which it has been done? A previously friendly alliance places POS in a system we have an agreement about. We try and resolve this amicably only to be stalled and then told that in effect "tough luck, we're doing it anyway because when you said and we agreed your claim was "to xx-xxx and 3KB-PO" we do not recognise that saying to something means including it."
We are not going to be bullied by this, we are not going to roll over and quietly let it slip. Our agreement was made with a then friendly force and it has now been torn and thrown back in our faces when it no longer suits the plans of some members of ISS. It is not warmongering, it is protecting the principle of the agreement which was created in good faith, it is standing firm in the face of bully boy tactics and hostile posturing.
It is the correct, honourable and legitmate stance to take. And believe me, we are taking it seriously.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.20 17:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
Parallax Error:
The issue is not of whether is was 'to' or 'to and including'.
Aralis outright refused ISS's offer to an alternative system next to 3Kb, as CVA allegedly claim the entire constellation.
The issue is simply that the burden of responsibility lies with CVA's diplomats to accurately communicate your borders and future plans during the negotations.
ISS relied on the information of those negotiations to make plans, and now those plans don't suit CVA, they have decided to war dec.
No its fairly simple, as Orillion said the supposed alternative system is actually further into the area we are talking about. Quite how you can say that you were offering an alternative when:
a) Large fully armed POS number 4 or 5 was being onlined
b) The alternative was one jump further into the disputed area.
The claim and the agreement is pretty straightforward from my position, to me the only thing ISS has relied upon so far is CVA capitulating at the first sign of trouble. Infact i'm starting to believe that its pretty damn obvious that you were going to take something in that constellation regardless of what was going to happen or what was previously agreed.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.22 00:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Parallax Error on 22/04/2006 00:42:02
Originally by: Zooish
Stop hiding .... and playing political games ..... remove the I've got a big gun attitude, because you haven't, remove the War Dec and I'm sure it will be sorted.
Stop hiding behind an alternative character in an IC forum and post with your main, grow a pair and stop hiding behind aninimity! Remove the "I've got an opinion attitude" because until you can express those opinions as someone involved in this or at the very least, as someone who is not hiding behind a childish forum flame alt.......
Your opinion is worth as much as a diseased slave!
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Golan Trevize
Ive tried...
Instead ive been branded hereric...CVA leadership know the lenghtsts ive gone to..these matters of personal honour will be resolved in space at a apropiate time.
otherwise my channles are still open and i am still working for a peacefull solution to this tradegy...
I'm sure the CVA would love to open talks again Golan, but how many more private conversations are going to find their way onto GalNet?
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Golan Trevize
In all my comms with Arails he has been aware that i would post chat logs to the M-C client.
So find another way to insult me....and ill deal with it accordingly.
But not the public forums.
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